24/11/08
Dr. Nostrum
So your theory, I still don't quite understand what it's a theory of?
Hutchback
Right, it's a theory of...
Dr. Nostrum
It's a theory of...?
Hutchback
...it's a theory of Cultural...
Together
...Relativity.
Dr. Nostrum
No, that's...
Hutchback
Is, er, is that...
Dr. Nostrum
...not right is it?
Hutchback
...no, it's, it's (long pause) I don't know what it is.
Dr. Nostrum
It's something to do with quality isn't it?
Hutchback
It's, it's to do with significance.
Dr. Nostrum
Oh.
Hutchback
It's about significance.
Dr. Nostrum
Cultural – significance of...
Hutchback
Of Cultural events
Dr. Nostrum
Events, or...
Hutchback
That I would posit (see, told you)
Dr. Nostrum
...work?
Hutchback
No, of anything - cultural (pause) thing, objects. It could be an event...
Dr. Nostrum (unsure)
Ye-es
Hutchback
Er, a, you know, er, (long pause) a piece of literature...
Dr. Nostrum
Lint?
Hutchback
A piece of, a piece of felt...
Dr. Nostrum
Vannessa Feltz
Hutchback
It could be Vannessa Feltz.. no, no, cos you see that would be now veering into the second category, which is, which is the Garbage that society. The Garbage that we create...
Dr. Nostrum
I actually think she probably didn't set out to be garbage, she probably was a bit like Gordon Brown.
Hutchback
No, no, as soon as you go, kind of chat TV, chat radio, you are embracing 'the garbage', surely? There's no...
Dr. Nostrum
Well, yeah, but not if you've got, I don't know, Wittgenstein talking to Joseph Heller...
Hutchback
Yeah but you don't get that, well, you might get it on radio 4...
Dr. Nostrum
No, you would never get Wittgenstein talking to J..
Hutchback
Well, you might have got it on radio 4
Dr. Nostrum
Did they even exist in the same...
Hutchback
Yeah, Wittgenstien...
Dr. Nostrum
...period? Did they cross over?
Hutchback
Yeah, course.
Dr. Nostrum
Really?
Hutchback
Didn't they?
Dr. Nostrum
I thought he was 1800 and something
Hutchback
Wittgenstein? Oh, I thought it was 19...
Dr. Nostrum
You see – presupposing something
Hutchback
...19 something.
Dr. Nostrum
Wittgenstein?
Hutchback
No, alright, yeah you're right, he was earlier it wasn't 17 anything..
Dr. Nostrum
Now I actually saw Joseph Heller sit on a panel of that...
Hutchback
Sit on a park bench.
Dr. Nostrum
...review. Yeah, but no, he was on this review – you know, one of these – they used to do it on radio, no, on BBC 2. D'you remember? The late night review...
Hutchback
Yes
Dr. Nostrum
...where they had some bloke and then they had other blokes...
Hutchback
'The Late...'
Dr. Nostrum
...and a woman
Hutchback
...Late Review – late night?
Dr. Nostrum
Yeah, he was on – I know what you're thinking about – and it was him – whatever – but I just remember that he was one person and Tony Parsons, I believe, was one of the other people...
Hutchback
Hmm, two...
Dr. Nostrum
...Yeah, and it was quite...
Hutchback
...giants (starts laughing)
Dr. Nostrum (laughing)
Well that's what I was thinking! Cos you know, you've got, you've obviously got Cultural (pause) giants, you know, right throughout the depth, the depth of, of the, erm, (pause) the dissection of whatever they were talking about was at, er, was at levels (pause) now, that was relativity working there.
Hutchback
Levels
Dr. Nostrum
And I don't remember, I don't...
Hutchback
Levels...
Dr. Nostrum
...Yeah, Levels...
Hutchback
...Jerry.
Dr. Nostrum
I don't remember anything anyone said, I just thought the whole idea of having Joseph Heller on the same programme as Tony Parsons, talking about the same thing...
Hutchback
Hmm.
Dr. Nostrum
Was an extraordinarily weird idea.
Hutchback
Like, ehm...
Dr. Nostrum
Well, I don't know...
Hutchback
Sigmund Freud and Bernard Manning
Dr. Nostrum
Talking about psychotherapy, yeah. (pause) Well, you know, I think the thing is, Sigmund Freud might have been interested in Bernard Manning but I don't think Joseph Heller was interested in Tony Parsons.
Hutchback
Mm, mm, mm. But would Bernard Manning have been interested in Sigmund Freud?
Dr. Nostrum
I still do like his joke – (here comes irony, just in case you were wondering) I was telling M as another great bit of her cultural inheritance, not to be racist in any way at all, but I did like that joke about living next door to – "I'm a better man than you cause at least I don't live next door to a stinking Paki."
Hutchback
Yeah, that will have to be edited out later. But..
Dr. Nostrum
Do you remember that joke?
Hutchback (an unfortunate memory)
Yes, I remember it
Dr. Nostrum
I can't remember how it started...
Hutchback
Yeah, cause he moves in..
Dr. Nostrum
I know, 'he moves in...' but I can't remember what..
Hutchback
I'm a bet.. I'm a luckier man than you
Dr. Nostrum
No, It was 'I'm a better man than you' I think
Hutchback
No, 'I'm a luckier man than you Mr. Manning'
Dr. Nostrum
And what it must have been – cause I was trying to tell M this joke you see and I couldn't remember the whole set-up...
Hutchback
Couldn't remember the classic...
Dr. Nostrum
...and if you just come up with the punch-line it sounds terrible.
Hutchback
I think the joke – even with the pre-amble, it's pretty terrible
Dr. Nostrum
Yeah
Hutchback
But um, after all...
Dr. Nostrum
Yeah
Hutchback (sarcasm)
...it's just the Pakistani's, we don't have to worry that much...
Dr. Nostrum
No
Hutchback
...They're all terrorists anyway. (pause) We'll have to edit that one out as well. God. Erm.
Dr. Nostrum
Do you think it's easy to get a fatwa on yourself if you're just insignificant?
Hutchback (laughs)
Um, yeah, probably, cos it's quite a lot of effort to do all that fatwa-ing. You know...
Dr. Nostrum
Well actually, a Fatwa, a Fatwa...
Hutchback
...all that religious hatred.
Dr. Nostrum
...a Fatwa is actually not so bad is it, cos it's effectively someone saying just "ignore 'em", isn't it, basically. A Fatwa is, you know, it's kind of like blackballing someone?
Hutchback
Hmm, again, we'll have to edit that one out as well.
(beat)
No, I don't know, again, it, oh, Bloody Hell, I mean, the th.. how many things can you actually talk about that you actually know anything about at all?
Hutchback
Um, very little...
Dr. Nostrum
Yeah, almost nothing.
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